tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post6872553001390568101..comments2023-06-16T10:55:07.460+01:00Comments on ASLEF shrugged: Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-14643200851875551262015-07-17T20:27:30.723+01:002015-07-17T20:27:30.723+01:001 in 27 weekends off on 50k a year (with only 16 w...1 in 27 weekends off on 50k a year (with only 16 weeks of training.) Well cry me a river.<br /><br />If you don't like the conditions then you could always leave and become properly skilled workers instead. <br /><br />If you see entry requirements being diminished, mass recruitment, outsourced pre-training and automation coming in then you know what they're up to. <br /><br />They'll be swinging the supply/demand ratio of the labour force into management's favour so that strikes are less likely or effective. <br /><br /><br /><br />. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-69329740015159035732015-07-10T22:08:38.401+01:002015-07-10T22:08:38.401+01:00Just so hard to explain - yes, we already have nig...Just so hard to explain - yes, we already have nights; yes, other professions work nights- it's the way these rosters would be appalling for our health, welfare & work/life balance, and whatever they say were trying to IMPOSE.<br />Re all the auto/training stuff- surely even if using 'satnav' signaling, would need to be fully conversant with route in case of computer failure?<br />What does a car driver do if satnav fails? Sit there until a 'controller' contacts them to tell how finish journey? Wait for the emergency services?Or get their A-Z out, use previous knowledge etc. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-80302500614379072992015-07-10T21:56:47.718+01:002015-07-10T21:56:47.718+01:00Actually you are a complete & utter knob, and ...Actually you are a complete & utter knob, and nobody cares what you are suggesting.<br />Of course we always get the 'greedy drivers, all about money' shit.And the 'bring on driverless, sack them all'.<br />We also get (and got Thurs), a lot of support. From people disrupted, which we didn't want to do. Big Mouth Boris started this, & the new wimps in LU haven't got balls to call him out.<br />We have LONG STANDING agreements. You don't come in & say 'forget them, we'll tell you when & where you'll work' & expect us to say 'Oh all right then, we'll just shit on those that fought for them-and fuck anyone that follows us into job in future, for some dirty silver today'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-36550994311027222682015-07-10T21:44:09.163+01:002015-07-10T21:44:09.163+01:00Hi Mr Manager again! Were they all discussed fully...Hi Mr Manager again! Were they all discussed fully with those affected, and/or in the public domain, as should have been?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-69577735497242877532015-07-10T21:33:37.926+01:002015-07-10T21:33:37.926+01:00(Reply to Anon @ 9th 06:57) Hello Mr (most likely ...(Reply to Anon @ 9th 06:57) Hello Mr (most likely lowish grade, newish, clueless, graduate maybe?) Manager; nice to see you on the ball so early on strike day! Hope you come back to read this.<br />I suggest whoever is spinning you a line is not being frank, and wonder why you are swallowing their dick whole?<br />Are you suggesting that info ASLEF put out earlier in week, including minutes, was their invention? That they made up requested Duty Schedules make explanations about our current agreements, & LU 'negotiation team' (clowns) said no need, as they were 'above that'?<br />What on earth would make you think that we would doubt our reps above proven liars?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-762785330647708432015-07-10T16:54:14.274+01:002015-07-10T16:54:14.274+01:00Night duties are, yes. We have night duties at my ...Night duties are, yes. We have night duties at my depot. That is not the issue. The issue is a proposed roster that sees drivers having one weekend off every 27 weeks. I don't care what anyone says - that is ridiculous. Full automation cannot occur on lines that share track with National Rail. That means both the Metropolitan and Bakerloo lines are absolute non-starters. Train Captains trying to fix a defect on a train at rush hour in a deep level tunnel? Ha! Don't make me laugh! Imagine trying to find space to walk three cars down on a packed train full of panicking passengers, remove a seat to get to the valves and fight your way back to the front of the train... in the dark... in the middle of summer.<br /><br />Being able to move from TOC to TOC across Europe isn't such a bad idea, although I doubt many existing drivers would wish to transfer. We're actually lowest on the pay scale when it comes to driving - London Overground drivers are on £55K, as will the new Crossrail drivers. Eurostar? £60-70K. Southeastern? 55-60K.<br /><br />Yes, we are paid well which is why a pay increase is not in dispute. We couldn't give a stuff about pay. What we do care about is having time to see our children, look after our parents and spend time with our friends more than once every four to five months. I don't know about you but I work to live, I certainly don't live to work. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-39792698192031380232015-07-10T16:48:46.859+01:002015-07-10T16:48:46.859+01:00Speaking maintenance staff, I bumped into one of t...Speaking maintenance staff, I bumped into one of the track maintenance guys today in the mess when starting my shift. He commented that they wanted him to change his shifts from Monday-Friday to Sunday to Thursday - and he was not happy to do this. So that is something else that has been left to the last minute without actually negotiating anything with the people who do the job. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-29800306153869067142015-07-10T12:08:41.868+01:002015-07-10T12:08:41.868+01:00Do route and rolling stock knowledge requirements ...Do route and rolling stock knowledge requirements go away with ERTMS? Because they are a large percentage of a driver's/TOp's knowledge.<br /><br />Also, as pointed out earlier, while automatic train operating systems can probably be installed on most lines, there is still much doubt whether the resignalling of the sub-surface side can be delivered, and even LU admits some form of staff presence will be required on board trains, even if said presence does not sit in a cab.<br /><br />However many aspects of a railway you automate, there will always have to be a human being somewhere, without whom the system will not run, and who will have highly-specialised skills that cannot be readily replaced. Get rid of drivers, and the tube can still be crippled by a strike of route controllers, signallers, or maintenance staff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-61211633747572845552015-07-09T21:43:45.111+01:002015-07-09T21:43:45.111+01:00With ERTMS any language competent driver with an E...With ERTMS any language competent driver with an EU train driver licence can slot into the job easily. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-67655381350990754102015-07-09T21:22:00.226+01:002015-07-09T21:22:00.226+01:00ERTMS
In-cab signalling. Probably with the capabi...ERTMS<br /><br />In-cab signalling. Probably with the capability of piggy backing fully automated control when it becomes more economic. Thus minimising handling/route learning training. <br /><br />Couple this with people being part qualified in rules and regs before they come to the industry - as airline pilots are - then your training can be reduced drastically from 12-16 weeks down to something more akin to bus driving, and the pay made commensurate with that. <br /><br />If I were a Tory minister this is how I'd be thinking.<br /><br />The country simply cannot afford to have its capital held to ransom over this and there is zero public sympathy for your case as there was with the miners. <br /><br />What was wrong with considering yourselves well off and keeping your heads down a bit ? Surely night duty is part of shift work ? I think you've made yourselves the #1 targets here and in previous stoppages. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-60298688527674076672015-07-09T19:13:43.098+01:002015-07-09T19:13:43.098+01:00H O R N B Y.H O R N B Y.ASLEF shruggedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15188861221455845621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-23298386025772076592015-07-09T19:12:53.575+01:002015-07-09T19:12:53.575+01:00Meanwhile at LUL they can't even get ATO on th...Meanwhile at LUL they can't even get ATO on the Sub Surface Lines because Bombardier Cityflo can't handle the Aldgate triangle.....ASLEF shruggedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15188861221455845621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-77741723357268296052015-07-09T14:25:43.430+01:002015-07-09T14:25:43.430+01:00Nuremberg's U3 (which shares tracks with U2) w...Nuremberg's U3 (which shares tracks with U2) was opened as a driverless metro in 2008, with driverless trains on the U3 sharing tracks with human-operated ones on the U2. The U2 was then converted to driverless operation in due course.<br /><br />The U3 opened 2 years late in 2008 with a sizeable budget overrun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-85665909420926525492015-07-09T13:17:19.179+01:002015-07-09T13:17:19.179+01:00Err...what is "European signalling"?? Pl...Err...what is "European signalling"?? Please reply. I am genuinely bemused and interested. Signal operators?! They are in our unions and take all the benefits our union offer. Yet most are probably not out on strike today as they should be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-28574948951179979692015-07-09T12:11:01.341+01:002015-07-09T12:11:01.341+01:00I didn't know Nuremberg had been converted to ...I didn't know Nuremberg had been converted to driverless, thank you.ASLEF shruggedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15188861221455845621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-65531435119387352832015-07-09T10:58:44.303+01:002015-07-09T10:58:44.303+01:00To Anon 10,26
I hadn't considered zero hours ...To Anon 10,26<br /><br />I hadn't considered zero hours but now you mention it...<br /><br />Who would want to be a stockpiled driver ? Lots would. At £30 an hour with the promise of a full time position at some point. <br /><br />Then there are the incalculable sums lost in London industrial disputes that could be eradicated in the long term by sorting this out in the short term. It makes the Strasbourg costs a worthwhile punt - especially where Aslef is accused of hindering the redress of the ethnic/female lack of representation in the grade. <br /><br />Automation ? Perhaps I've underestimated its cost. But I can see a time where both mainline and LU drivers will be competing with anyone holding an EU train driver's licence - especially if European signalling becomes normal and satnav technology reduces the requirement to learn routes. A while off perhaps. But more pressing the more disputes there are. <br /><br />Finally. I am not against you. I am trying to alert you. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-10736379896353448552015-07-09T10:35:02.192+01:002015-07-09T10:35:02.192+01:00The classroom training can be done in any classroo...The classroom training can be done in any classroom run by any accredited agency. That would complete, say, 40% of the coursework before the driver has even got a job. (I wouldn't put it past the Tories to fund this sort of thing)<br /><br />I'm sure the unions will be glad of the extra membership and are famous for misunderstanding suppy/demand economics and its effect on wages. <br /><br />Who trains the drivers in the hands-on stuff ? I'm sure that can be got around too - especially where the candidates are women or from ethnic minorities to redress imbalances. Will Aslef dare to hinder their opportunities ?<br /><br />There need be no more work nor less sleep. Especially where everyone does their bit. And for any timetabled service voluntary arrangements cannot be relied upon. Perhaps this night service issue is Bo Jo's gauntlet to you. Personally I wouldn't have risen to it and - as someone said on a news blog recently - "If I were paid £50k a year for pressing a button I'd be keeping as quiet as possible about it." Unfair, perhaps, but a common perception with the public.<br /><br />What the public really need to see from you is the eloquence and intelligence demonstrated on this blog. I would also argue that £50k a year does not go far in London and that it is just shy of the upper welfare limits when the claimant is able to max it our. But the comparison with doctors and senior military ranks is something that is difficult for people to comprehend and for you to shake off. A doctor takes 6 years to train, not 16 weeks. <br /><br />Bob Crow was an exceptional man, I agree. He saw the dangers of the EU to the UK workforce as did Tony Benn.. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-72229463851230173762015-07-09T10:26:53.016+01:002015-07-09T10:26:53.016+01:00The person writing the post I am replying to (8 Ju...The person writing the post I am replying to (8 July @ 22:07) clearly has no idea whatsoever how a railway is run, but would certainly like to have a go. Pretty much like current LU management...<br /><br />- As mentioned above, the required training for an LU driver is about 12-16 weeks - which is still short compared to 40-something weeks that it takes to train a person off the street for mainline railway driving duties. Good luck with the mass training exercise.<br />- Stockpiling drivers - yes I'd love to see who on Earth would like to take up zero-hours contracts for train driving. I'd also like to see the business case for this from LU's point of view: investing 12-16 weeks of work in training people, then letting that investment go to waste (how often do you need to do duties before you have to re-train?)<br />- Any new law with regard to industrial relations would need to be in line with EU labour law. Changing the law would potentially set the government up for a very expensive and politically painful dispute at Strasbourg.<br />- Automating existing lines takes between 7 and 10 years, has only been done twice (Nuremburg and Paris), and is probably unfeasible from a technological point of view on most LU lines. Not to mention it would cost a few billion per line - you would effectively be spending somewhere in the range of £20-£30bn to remove drivers. Pray tell, what would be the cost-benefit ratio of such an operation, particularly if you take into account the fact, that Crossrail 1 has a budget of ca. £16bn.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-92091386890876559002015-07-09T07:02:43.096+01:002015-07-09T07:02:43.096+01:00All the technical issue you mention, and others, a...All the technical issue you mention, and others, are fixed. Do you have more theories?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-61634486878580647032015-07-09T06:57:24.512+01:002015-07-09T06:57:24.512+01:00That is not true, whoever is telling you this is n...That is not true, whoever is telling you this is not being frank and I'd suggest you consider why this might be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-37756472855476402082015-07-08T22:58:05.710+01:002015-07-08T22:58:05.710+01:00There are many issues with that. Firstly, training...There are many issues with that. Firstly, training as a driver currently takes 12-16 weeks. Who trains the drivers? That right - other drivers. Will they volunteer to train the people that will see them out of a job? Not likely. The image problem is very much a problem with the press, as the Evening Standard is full of Boris Johnson's friends and many daily newspapers are Tory-leaning. That is exactly the reason most people view us as not very bright, fat old white men (I am a university educated, young black woman)<br /><br />It is not realistic for the workers to say 'how high?' to an upheaval of their family and personal lives. There are drivers and station staff at every station and depot that would happily volunteer for night duties. The company is not interested in this - they want the whole combine to sign a contract that will essentially have employees at their disposal. The redundancies are already in full swing, which means a double whammy of lower staffing levels and more unsociable hours. Doing more work on less sleep. That can be deadly in our line of work.<br /><br />I honestly think that since Bob Crow died the image of the unions has gotten a lot worse. He was a very intelligent man - unapologetic for his beliefs but likeable (for some) at the same time. The PR skills of current leaders leaves much to be desired.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-79907106735652088842015-07-08T22:39:23.533+01:002015-07-08T22:39:23.533+01:00Nothing was put on the table for CSAs. Absolutely ...Nothing was put on the table for CSAs. Absolutely nothing. The unions were scrambling to save the salaries of higher paid workers and in the process left the station staff at the lowest rung of the ladder with nothing. When the CSAs went on strike they did it PURELY for their colleagues, with no self interest at all. It has been raised with the union at meetings but very much brushed aside, and continues to be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-61133505429514829022015-07-08T22:07:18.341+01:002015-07-08T22:07:18.341+01:00The problem you chaps have is that the public see ...The problem you chaps have is that the public see you as being overpaid already - comparable to middle ranking doctors (also working night shifts) who have had to take on student debt and then train on extremely low pay to get their jobs.<br /><br />You are also viewed as being greedy, ungrateful, unskilled, uneducated and not very clever. Doubtless (from reading this forum) this is not necessarily true but you do have a public image problem that is not entirely the fault of the press. <br /><br />Wouldn't it have been wiser (just for a little while) to have kept your heads down, counted yourselves lucky to be paid what you are, and - for once, when your generous and undemanding boss asked you to jump - have said "How high ?" and without having asked for spondoolicks to do it ?<br /><br />I suppose that your only recourse is to withdraw your labour and harm the economy. <br /><br />What would I do if I were in charge ? Hmm. <br /><br />I'd reduce the already low entry requirements to become a train driver then mass recruit. Preferably keen people from abroad with big mortgages so that they would be reluctant to vote for a strike and would cross picket lines after a short while. I'd claim that this policy is in the interests diversity and equal opportunity - and how could the unions argue against it ?<br /><br />I'd create a surplus of staff - stockpiling drivers as the Thatcher government stockpiled coal with the miners. <br /><br />I'd then push through new laws on the legality of ballots and required turnouts. The demographics would change the attitude towards strike actions and one-off incentive payments, the votership swinging more to what management would like. <br /><br />Once done I'd start on a programme of redundancies saying to you "Well chaps. You're going to have to accept pay freezes/cuts and be more flexible - or we're going to have to start culling jobs."<br /><br />In the background would be the development of Satnav technologies (automation), EU driver licensing to enable EU workers with rules and simulator training, privately funded and gained outside the industry (as airline pilots are) to compete for your jobs too. <br /><br />Whatever. By now I'd be forming the opinion that you must be broken in the full knowledge and that the general public are behind me - no matter how much it cost. <br /><br />(Actually this is not what I want. But it is what I can see happening.)<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-58676531775275363972015-07-08T16:56:29.870+01:002015-07-08T16:56:29.870+01:00"Divide and rule", obviously..."Divide and rule", obviously...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704342683198287523.post-80646826669535647322015-07-08T16:53:02.009+01:002015-07-08T16:53:02.009+01:00Words fail me. So, announcing Night Tube as a smok...Words fail me. So, announcing Night Tube as a smokescreen for broken electoral promises and cuts to staff and passenger services isn't political, but strikes against this and worsening of terms and conditions is? The comments of the so-called Transport Minister really reveals what the Tories, freed from their Lib Dem shackles, are really like. And I've never seen such a lack of leadership at the top of LU and TFL, barely anyone left who's worked in an operating grade (even just briefly as a fast-tracked graduate). The roll-call of those leaving the organisation since the change of mayor is indicative - Tom O'Toole, Howard Collins and now Peter Hendy all gone, plus many more from the level below who might have been the inspirational leaders of tomorrow. More and more career 'managers' who flit from one well-paid job to another, with no loyalty to staff, passengers or Londoners; but only to themselves. I get the feeling LU want the strike to put the kibosh on Night Tube so that they can blame the unions for stopping something they don't want, and if the TUs get further emasculated by law after this, so much the better. The TFL intranet is giving guidelines to Surface Transport staff (i.e. buses) on attendance during the strike, yet no similar document has appeared online for Underground employees. Aren't they expecting anyone to turn up? No one has asked me how I am going to get home from work today, or into work tomorrow, or made any contingency arrangements. No team meetings, briefings etc. During the Wildcat Strikes and then Company Plan we were bombarded with propaganda. Have they just given up? If nothing else, the policy of using financial increments separate from the salary/pension is completely unacceptable and has to be fought here and now. The separate £2000 offered to T/Ops only has been seen for what it is, a cynical attempt to divide and fall, and has just antagonised even more people. I will be following the ASLEF rules - i.e. attend work tonight as I start just before 2130 but not coming in for Thurs night. I hate nights anyway, so it'll be a small bonus to miss one, and I certainly don't want to do more of them, especially at weekends!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com