Tuesday 21 October 2014


I’ll start with an apology, writing my last post on the proposed changes to station staffing was very interesting and quite fun, it was only when I revisited it later that I realised how dull it was to read.  To my colleague who asked me if I was ASLEF shrugged yesterday please accept my assurances you have never featured in my blog, you were none of the people I mentioned in the past, possibly the lack of nicotine is making you paranoid…….

The picture on driverless trains has become a little clearer, everything seems to suggest that until all the old trains have been replaced and PEDs have been fitted where necessary and/or possible the new trains will have a temporary cab with a TOp driving.  For the Piccadilly this will mean the first new train entering service around 2022 but driverless operation not commencing for three years with a similar pattern on the other lines so the Bakerloo could still be operating with TOps in the cab well into the 2030s.

Rather than my initial idea that TOps would be displaced from the lines being converted gradually as the new driverless trains were introduced this will mean that LU will need a full roster of TOps one day and the next they’ll be surplus to requirement.  The problem is retaining staff, in order to have enough TOps to keep the service running LU will have to fill vacancies due to retirement etc. even though they’ll be going NoPO in the near future.

For those TOps in their late 50s and 60s voluntary redundancy becomes quite an attractive option but imagine you are a TOp in your 30s or 40s on a line that is going driverless in the next five years or so.  If you want to carry on working at LUL then obviously you’re going to put in a transfer request to a line that will need TOps in the future, as will all your colleagues faced with a similar dilemma.  So how does LU stop a mass exodus that would leave them without enough TOps?

The answer is that we've been in this situation before, prior to closing the East London Line management did a deal with the unions, they got the TOps to stay until the end by offering them a large wedge of cash and guaranteeing them future employment.  Shortly after the ELL closed a large number of the displaced TOps moved to LES, they were sat around doing nothing for months as none of them were licensed to work 1992 stock and we didn’t have enough IOps to train them all at once.  There wasn’t enough space for all the new arrivals so LU put some portacabins in the car park which became know as “Sangatte”.

For myself it means that I’ll probably be retiring while the Central Line is in the process of conversion so I’ll miss out on any large redundancy package but as Granny shrugged would have said you don’t miss what you never had.  What it does mean is that a year or two before I retire I will probably need to be retrained to drive a driverless train which is ironic almost to the point of peeing myself.

7 comments:

  1. I think the one thing that shan't repeat itself is that LU won’t allow displaced staff to move to a depot of their choice. LU assumed most ex-ELL drivers would choose Elephant & Castle or North Greenwich, esp. as the TUs had opposed the close of New Cross LU depot partly because of the lack of train staff locations in south east London. The fact that the majority elected to go to Leytonstone, north of the river, causing a staff overload, caught them by surprise and it'll be a case of "once bitten...." next time. I suspect also that as lines get nearer to NoPo new drivers will be coming on separate contracts and lower pay. Whether the TUs make a fight about this "two tier" situation remains to be seen, they certainly didn’t when it came to Privilege Ticket cards.

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    1. The unions will never agree to staff in the same grade being paid different salaries, if they train as a TOp then they should get a TOps money. The Priv ticket issue was caused by the privatisation of BR, the TOCs withdrew from the reciprocal agreement where mainline staff got free travel on the Tube and Tube staff got cheap travel on the mainline so there’s no real comparison between the two issues.

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  2. There will be two-tier salaries under Fit for Future with some station staff on protected money and others in the same grade not. Post-BR privatisation the Priv Card disappeared but neither management or the TUs at the time fought for the rights of subsequent staff - it didn't affect them - they all had Privs already! ATOC later brought out its own card but nobody in LU lobbied to join the scheme. Ah, but LU is not a TOC some will say, but neither is the BTP yet its officers get them. It's cynical but TFL are playing the "I'm all right Jack" card and so far it's working. How many T/Ops supported the Fit for Future strikes? Yet we know this a template, a trial, for similar plans on trains and in Service Control. I'm in the later and at one point there was nearly a £10,000 difference between the top and bottom band of some grades. Was this fair? No. Could the people at the bottom eventually reach the top? No. And did any of the three TUs with negotiating rights do anything about it? No. [PS - Been in the Star of Bethnal Green lately?]

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    1. The big difference is that on Stations you have various grades all trained to different levels on different salaries, as far as I understand with Fit for the Future those who are downgraded will have their salaries protected. We only have one grade, Train Operator, we are all trained to the same level and all paid the same regardless of how long you've worked or what line you are working on. You can’t have new recruits operating trains without the full training so why should they be paid less?

      From what I heard the mainline TOCs didn’t want to continue the reciprocal agreement whereby we got Priv tickets and their staff got free travel on the Tube. LU weren’t prepared to pay the TOCs what they wanted to issue new staff with Priv so anyone who joined after 1997 only got free travel on Tube, buses and DLR (London Overground was still Silverlink Metro back then).

      Back when I was a station assistant staff working for the mainline TOCs certainly didn’t get free travel on the Tube. The unions didn’t have much say in the matter and TfL had absolutely no say at all because it didn’t exist at the time. I remember reading that the Met and BTP both pay TfL and the TOCs for the free travel their staff get, some Tory on the GLA was asking how much could be saved off the policing budget if it was withdrawn.

      I go to the Star about once a month

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  3. Hi shrugged, I notice you deleted yourself from Dave's forum. I did enjoy our convo's on the New driverless trains and Bakerloo extension. A lot of members there are fantasists so it was a welcome change talking with a fellow driver who has worked at the coalface. I'll bookmark your blog and may well chip in on occasion.
    Jim

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    1. I deleted myself over the toxic comments on the subject of women only cars. While I will admit that they are unpractical I was disgusted with the sexist shite spewed forth without any restraint from the mods and if that is acceptable on District Dave's then I really did not want to be connected with that forum.

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  4. You could have contacted a member of forum staff to express your concerns rather than deleting yourself in protest.

    We are all volunteers and can't always be around 24/7 to police the place - had you raised the issue with us we could have had an opportunity to take action rather than appearing to condone something that you clearly found offensive.

    We'd be happy to welcome you back and discuss the issue with the thread in question to see if we can find a satisfactory way forward - we can't do that if you don't talk to us though!!

    Colin, on behalf of the DD forum staff.

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