Secondly ASLEF represents train drivers, it doesn’t
represent station, control room or technical grades so it isn’t negotiating for
them, that is the job of RMT, TSSA or Unite.
I don’t know if management’s offer has been extended to them or to other
grades but if it hasn’t then it’s not up to ASLEF to get the offer extended
to them. All the reps of the four
unions are there to represent their members not those of other unions, if
interests coincide then that’s fine but if train drivers are not directly
affected then it’s not ASLEF’s problem.
Right, that aside I think the idea of two 24 hour strikes
less than three weeks after the last one is absolutely bonkers. In the past it has been the amount of pay
lost that has led to staff ignoring strike calls as we have bills to pay just
like everyone else. We get paid every
four weeks, our next pay day is Wednesday 2nd September so I think these
strikes come too late to be deducted from that but if not it means that staff
could lose three days wages off their next pay slip.
If it does roll over onto the next pay day, 30th
September, then that will already be missing two days’ pay so any additional
strikes in September could be a lot less solid as staff, especially those on
lower salaries like CSAs, struggle to make ends meet. In the past we've seen RMT strikes fizzle out from "strike fatigue" so this could be two strikes too many. If management do renege on their promise to
not introduce Night Tube without agreement and ASLEF call a strike in September
they could find themselves on their own.
So is this a cunning management ploy to split the unions
and reduce the effectiveness of strikes or is this someone thinking they can
ratchet up the strike for some reason or other, I have no idea.
Obviously at a time when management appear to be offering an olive
branch to ASLEF we’re not going to throw it back in their faces, if the other
unions go out on strike they’ll be doing so without us so maybe the leadership should reconsider their timing and their tactics.
Speaking to a few members and the feeling at the moment is one of disappoinment that ASLEF have decided to distance themselves from the other three unions. You're right that ASLEF is a train drivers union representing the interests of train drivers, however I and many others felt that this dispute was unique in the way that it has affected so many of the staff on the underground, bringing together all four unions..............how often does that happen?
ReplyDeleteI see no olive branch. Management say that they will not impose night tube rosters however in an email today from Steve Griffths, he claims that LUL will still be operationally ready to deliver night tube on 12th September.
Many staff feel a great deal of resentment about how this whole affair has been handled, from the lack of communication from management and the way that tube staff have been villified in the media, in some cases resulting in the ending of friendships and dischord amongst family members.
LUL have played their part in the rabble rousing by spreading untruths and mis-directions about our demands and how the travelling public are going to have to pick up the bill if they concede to the unions.
Whilst what you are saying is correct, given the current mood I would not at all be suprised if ASLEF lose members.
I doubt very much that ASLEF will lose members on the contrary it will be the RMT who. will lose members with this 2 days in one week strike and if there ANY station staff seen at stations working if there is service because ASLEF drivers. RMT drivers will leave and join ASLEF. You are right about staff having. discord with family and friends which will get worse with these 2 days of strikes.
DeleteMembers will move on only one direction ... RMT to ASLEF
DeleteAll this bickering from grown men and women. This is the reason I'm no longer a member of any union. I think most people that work for LU forget how well paid we are and how fair an employer LU is. Shift work is shift work,we all signed up for it quick enough when offered the job. Most people I've met in my time with LU (22 years) have no qualifications whatsoever, outside of our terrible job you would be lucky to earn half what you earn as a train op. That's the truth. Stop moaning, get on with your jobs and be grateful you don't work in a supermarket.
DeleteSome drivers have not forgotten being 'Sold down the river' by ASLEF over the Olympics. I hope its not deja vu.
ReplyDeleteYes Aslef are elitist and only represent train drivers....however all unions should remain together over this. When (If) night tube starts you need all staff to be fit and aware of the job. If station staff do not get the same rest periods as drivers (would this be a legal issue?) then what use would they be in an emergency if they were suffering from fatigue? Further, the night CSA's are all brand new and whilst some have been doing various shifts during traffic hours they are still brand new and will remain unaware or how to deal with many major issues that will no doubt arise from night tube operation.
DeleteI don't know about being sold down the river, because didn't some Drivers earn a lot money out of the Olympics? I ask as I was not at work at that time, but Drivers have told me that there was some unfamiliar faces doing late turns!!
DeleteYes people earned alot of money because of RMT agreements.
Deletewasn't it aslef agreements that they made 6 months prior and RMT hijacked all the glory at last minute as fantastic deal ?????
DeleteASLEF negotiated the Olympic deal in April 2012 and the Daily Mail ran a piece claiming we'd be earning £6200 each.
DeleteSeriously get your facts right.
DeleteASLEF negotiated a great deal on the Olympics for DRIVERS whom they represent.
RMT were willing to do the duties for c£15 a shift whereas those of that worked through the Olympics earn significantly more than that - I learnt c£3000 extra for Olympics and c£2000 for the Paras....how much did the RMT get for their station staff? Nowhere near that amount that's for sure
Where were most of the RMT members when ASLEF last striked?, they were at work!!
ReplyDeleteThe last time ASLEF went on strike was on the Central Line last year and almost every RMT TOp refused to cross the picket line because the grievances affected them too.
DeleteYou live in cloud cookoo land there were plenty of RMT drivers that worked that day and crossed picket lines with a smug smile on their face
DeleteYes but this strike affects us all.......as mentioned above if a train op needs assistance during a night shift what sort of assistance would he/she get if the member of staff was suffering from fatigue or didn't have a clue how to deal with the situation of which many there will be I am sure. I predict the number of fights, incidents and staff assults to double or worse when this thing kicks in.
ReplyDeleteAgree but why should ASLEF members strike on 25/27 August?
DeleteThese are the sorts of issues that need to be discussed and consulted on. When we're striking neither of these things happen.
No operational staff wants Night Tube as far as I see but its going to happen. But now its isn't going to be imposed so we can start proper talks. Neither side having a gun at their head.
If talks fail and imposition raises its head....7 days notice and out we go!
If night tube does ever start, staff will use on there days off, it is like that new motorway that everyone protests about and that no one if ever going to use, and lo and behold everyone starts to use it not long after it opens. I am resigned to the 2 days strike and being told how wonderful I am by Mick Cash for my loyalty to the Union.
DeleteI am an ASLEF member too. It is strange that senior and experienced RMT, TSSA and Unite Reps can read a Management offer and not see any assurances or guarantees. Yet ASLEF Senior Reps can. Previously. ASLEF were given all sorts of "promises" by Managers regarding Boxing Day working. Managers then stuck to the letter of that deal and our Reps were hide bound to accept because the Reps had accepted a load of vague and ill written details. We are only ever told the broad strokes of any deal. The devil is always in the details. If all the other union negotiators can see pitfalls in this deal, then why cant our ASLEF guys?? It is worrying that there are no updates or further information on the ASLEF website. This is not the time or issue in which to have faith in what Management say. Managers must do. After the disgraceful (and frankly disgusting) way Management have brought this strike on, Mangers must DO not say! Management must change and ACT so we have trust and faith in them. until this happens I( as one ASLEF member) will not be crossing any RMT, TSSA and Unite Picket line.
ReplyDeleteNow really was the time to get some real change and positive action out of LU Managers. We are being asked to accept fundamental changes to our conditions. It was great that all 4 unions recognised this and chose to act in solidarity. It was great that for once, ASLEF finally woke up and saw how badly management were treating drivers. We could have achieved something great for ourselves if we stuck together. £500 bonus? We can get £5000! We just have to stay firm and united. Think on that ASLEF reps. Cheers
DeleteYes you are right about the ASLEF website there is very little information and no leaflets at the depots, I would recommend you checking out the 'London calling' website which is run by the RMT. Only yesterday Eamon Lynch from the the RMT Executive gave a full bulletin about the talks.
DeleteI get regular updates by text message from my local rep and exec council while Finn has his Twitter account and Facebook page. Welcome to social media...
DeleteNight Tube rosters won't be imposed. Its in writing from HR director. Whats hard to read? Even if they go back on that it would still require weeks of notice for an imposition and what would we do...7 days notice and strike!
DeleteAs far as information get with the 21st century and check Facebook, Twitter, get on the mailing g lists with your local reps and the TFC guys. I get more information now than I have ever received.
Why do you mention money?
We want time off, a rest day after nights that isn't spent in bed asleep recovering from nights, and a limit to weekend working not money FFS
But wouldnt it be better to talk and try to work out a out a deal than loose 2 days pay and 2 posts above if its about work life balance why are you wanting 5000 pound ??? No updates on web site as nothing to report yet if your aslef you should of got this anyway . Dear All,
ReplyDeleteASLEF met management today at ACAS and it was agreed that night tube duty sheets would be withdrawn and they will not impose night tube without agreement with ASLEF. Further industrial action from ASLEF has been suspended while we have more detailed discussions on the way forward including the pay. ASLEF's mandate will remain live and action can and will be taken at any time we feel that members are suffering detriment on pay or night tube.
Excellent post. Some info at last from someone who is possibly a senior level ASLEF rep. In fairness to the guy who said we could get £5000, they didn't mention work/life balance. He (or she) was more about ASLEF sticking with the rest of us and what we could achieve if we all (all grades and all unions) stay united. Or maybe he/ she just wants the money and doesn't give a fig about work/life. I have had a letter from Unite this morning. It implies there will be "productivity strings" attached to accepting the pay deal. This is one of those details that need examining. Every pay deal has had some sort string attached since as long as I can remember. It justifys the existence of overpaid, glorified admin bodies we call Managers. And means our workers lives are made even pettier and anal than ever. " Oh No! Calamity! You were 30 seconds late. Theres a warning for you". This shit needs to stop. I agree that management need to show good faith with us and not vice versa. Take this on board ASLEF negotiators.
DeleteThe problem is the dispute is its all about work life balance but seems some people think that means getting mega money its not its about working the same or less weekends and if work night shift a proper day off following it not finish sunday morning and be back for a early shift on the Monday ..
Deleteyes all the fine print needs to be examined
A little now pain for long term gain. Do the strikes now and show bosses once and for all the workers have had enough. I would much rather not lose 3 days pay in August pay packet just like a lot of you. However we get paid twice in September. Budget you Fuckers. We are all on above average pay. Use your overdraft. Speak to your bank. You will find them surprisingly sympathetic. However you do it YOU MIST STRIKE. Don't forget mainline were prepared to do week long strike right from the start of their action. Their bosses caved straight away. That's why their drivers are on more than us. Cheers
DeleteWe've just shown our strength in the last two strikes - no trains and as near as damn it 100% support. Thats resulted in sheets being taken down and no way Night Tube will be operating on 12th September.
DeleteWhy strike again on 25/27 August we have just won the first battle of the war!
Save the 2 day pay loss for strikes later in the year if talks go nowhere to they threaten us again with imposition.
ASLEF are driving a wedge between us. The 5k person was all about staying united. This ASLEF twat is about forgetting even what the strike started over. It started about pay and then went on to include rostering and rest days. For a rep to say its just about work/life just goes to show the calibre of your average rep. Too busy hob knobbing with managers and not actually listening (or reading) what members have said or written and actually want. If we stay together we can have better pay AND rosters. If all unions stood firm we can achieve anything we want. Its not an ideal. Its a fact.
ReplyDeleteASLEFs strike started due to the threaten imposition of Night Tube rosters get your facts right!
DeleteOther unions seems obsessed with pay - we want quality time off and rosters that can be worked.
All RMT want it seems is to try to win their lost Fit for Staions battle - you lost guys, move on and try to look after your remaining members otherwise you will have no presence on LU very soon
No. You get your facts right. ASLEF, RMT, TSSA and Unite started strike over rejection of paltry intial pay offer for Night Tube working and lack of movement regarding pay deal. PAY is the buzz word there. RMT were first to raise issue of rosters. Steve Hedley was first to mention " rosters from hell" for mainly RMTs station members. STATION guys. This was later taken up by all the unions including ASLEF. Probably after it had dawned on them that, "Oh yeah. The depot rosters are shit, too. Duh". And the rest, as they say, is history...
DeleteOh I forgot RMT is always right aren't they!
DeleteNo.
ASLEF went into dispute due to the publishing of the Victoria Line rosters not Night Tube. That is a fact. I know because unlike you I was at the ASLEF reps meeting and I know what we agreed.
THIS IS WHAT TRIGGERED US TO BALLOT.
Unlike the dying other union who are haemorrhaging members left right and centre we choose our battles. Night tube rosters not being imposed, no need to strike now - take stock, talk, negotiate and go out again if needs be (which it will be) at a later date.
Also don't show your chidishness with that sort of pathetic language - although it's another reason why more and more people including RMTs own reps are feeling increasing embarrassed to be in your union.
"The rosters that have been put out are the rosters from hell " Steve Hedley 6 August 2015
Delete"This could have a huge impact...changeovers would become impossible, work life balance would be destroyed and fatigue problems would go through the roof!" Finn Brennan 27 April 2015
Well said Shrugged!
DeleteWhy must you resort to childish name calling ?? My point is while talks are ongoing and night tube rosters are not bring brought in without agrrement why not see what they offer if no good then strike save the lost wages tull then
ReplyDeleteerr...because you are obviously a child. You must be if you cant see the fallacy in ASLEF having separate talks with management? Even if as you say its just ASLEF doing a "wait and see", then why the talks independent of the other 3 unions?? The rosters are going to be shit even if our weekends off stay the same. They will be because of the finishing times of the extended lates/nights. Think on that everyone. We don't need status quo we require fairer parameters and a whole NEW rethink on all the policies. We could have got this if ASLEF hadn't started to suck management dick again. Offended. Prude?? Good.
DeleteWhilst there is no need to use such words (as the dick word) there does appear sadly to be this general feeling that ASLEF do tend to hop into bed with management. Management know that by getting ASLEF (68% of the drivers on LU I am told) to work then they can flood stations with managers, admin and other staff to get a lot of lines or parts of lines running thus breaking the other unions resolve. Granted and full credit to those that still refuse to cross picket lines. I hope the whole night thing goes dead because Barmy Boris want's the night tube on his CV that's all regardless of roster's or safety issues. He is just ploughing ahead as he has done with Ticket Office closures regardless of what everybody else says or objects to. So far this strike has been solid. I have enjoyed being on the picket line twice at White City with my RMT colleagues (station staff and drivers) and ASLEF colleagues, where the spirit have been good and food and drink enjoyed together forming good bonds. Sadly no other of the Unions were represented on our pickets. At the end of the day...it is US (Unions) against THEM (LU Management) and by sticking together we can make sure we all get a better deal and safety is not compromised. The rumours are rife as well about management not wanting night tube, but of course we have to consider Barmy Boris's CV remember!
Delete...and after ASLEF hop into bed with Management what do they do? Anyone? Bueller...Bueller... THEY SUCK MANAGEMENT DICK!!! lmao. The other poster had it right first time.
DeleteIf you don't feel happy with ASLEFs position go to your branch meeting and put over your view and try to change things!
DeletePlus you personally don't have to go into work on the strike days if you feel that strong about it. Personally I agree with my unions position but I won't cross an RMT picket line.
Or is it that you are not actually an ASLEF member??????
This (above) is just what management want - tell lies, work round their mates in the media so the LU staff story never gets an airing, then stick in the garden fork. I'm a TSSA member and thankfully a long way away from my Underground days. We must stick together - management keep looking for the fag-paper thin gaps between us, and they're got the resource to exploit that.
ReplyDeleteLU management blundered because Johnson dropped them into this, and he won't take the blame (which is why not even wild horses will get him into the talks); LU management can now see P60s lined up as their reward for failure, which is the only reason why they've shifted - a bit. This is our wedge between them and Johnson - we need to be together, to exploit that.
Each of the four unions represents real people in real jobs with real bills to pay, and real lives to live. Don't forget the 'little folk' who also stand and serve. Each union has specialists who are members, each member pays their subs. Johnson screwed up and united all of us for the first time since when - the General Strike? That won't go well in his bid to become PM - which is what this is all really about. Give Osborne and May the poisoned knife to stick into Johnson - stick together!
There clearly is a difference between a striker with a family and new to the London property market and one who isn't. In the interest of solidarity those better off could donate to a hardship fund to keep the others going.
ReplyDeleteWhat a load of utter bollox!
DeleteYou want to 'means test' strikers for viability?
Anyone in serious need can apply to hardship funds. Anyone worth salt that can afford will donate to whatever fund as feels worth.
Guess what - EVERYBODY HAS A FAMILY, you seem to want to narrow the definition of it?
See my earlier post.
Delete